Post by The Dark One on Mar 25, 2020 23:09:03 GMT
Lead by: The Creator and The Dark One
Summary:
Andor:
The rebuilding of Caemlyn after the Last Battle:
Eve: let's say it took 10-15?? years, using Ogier stone masons, Asha'man from the BT, and linked Kin circles.
Nat: I would say that it became an issue a few years in because of the Kin
which kind of forced Saerin to confront the problem early on in her career
Eve: I can agree that the Kin would have been worked out during the rebuild, creating their respective stations across the westlands
Nat: the WT doesn't believe in setting precedent and 10-15 years is enough for that
alright, sounds good
and to avoid the same problem of neutrality, this also spurs the BT to move out from Andor?
Eve: Yes, it's during that time they found Caralain (which we'll have in another plot party), but say they lend aid with Caemlyn in concert with the Kin for 5?? years, the rest of the rebuild is completed by Ogier (Asha’man and Kin free thereafter to employ those skills in other countries, etc. due to ties with Elayne, Andor was not charged during the rebuild)
Relationships with neighboring countries (Caralain/Cairhien/Manetheren/Murandy etc):
Caralian and Andor were very close, up until Rahlin's War, which hurt Andor almost as much as TV. It would be some time in healing I think.
Cairhien was handed off to family, so I think they would remain on good terms with one another, especially with noble houses holding lands on both sides
Manetheren had a peaceful and mutually beneficial abdication, so also good there
but then there's Murandy...
So, during Moranna's reign, after the breaking off of Cairhien and Manetheren, she was able to obtain the Hills of Kintara and in doing so, several Murandian nobles swore allegiance to Andor and the Lion Throne (effectively cutting down border raids and ensuring a more stable supply route from the Hills to Aringill)
Tar Valon, what exactly is the nature of their alliance with an Aes Sedai queen?
NatGeoYesterday at 7:10 PM
I think the power among nations is much more even now compared to when Elayne was in charge of 2(3?) nations
but I think Elayne's position as someone who had that much power to potentially challenge WT authority on channeller-related matters would have awakened the AS to further potential problems
I could actually imagine that part of Moranna's problems were behind the scenes manipulations to break apart Andor into 3 states again
just so that one person wouldn't ever have that much power again
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:12 PM
I mean all Aes Sedai are bound by the Oaths (which would obviously still apply), but also they are all meant to answer to the Hall/Amyrlin, which would be... difficult... with nation rulers
NatGeoYesterday at 7:13 PM
I think there would be an implicit understanding that while on the throne they would be representing their nations
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:14 PM
Which is a boon and a curse for the Tower
NatGeoYesterday at 7:14 PM
And especially when they're not dealing with OP matters, this line is more cut and dry
It just becomes tricky when channelling matters are involved
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:15 PM
Hurray they have national rulers intrinsically tied to them, but they also have Aes Sedai who do not necessarily follow the guidance of the Tower
NatGeoYesterday at 7:15 PM
that's why they have Aes Sedai advisors
haha
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:16 PM
Yeah, but they can tell those advisors to take a swim, just as much as any other ruler could
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:17 PM
Yeah I mean, they can't birch a queen for screwing them on a trade deal, so I guess they would have to just deal with it and try to advise or cajole.
NatGeoYesterday at 7:18 PM
well the WT gets their way most of the time
they have experience
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:18 PM
But it would defo humiliate them to get publically screwed by an Aes Sedai
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:18 PM
They would have to treat them as they would any other national power I suppose, just get an extra ear on Tower matters
NatGeoYesterday at 7:18 PM
even if during the days of the LB they royally screwed up
but that was probably mostly Elaida's fault
and the black ajah progrom taking out a lot of experienced sisters
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:20 PM
And I don't see any AS rulers being totally blind and deaf to Tower requests, but as we said, by necessity it would come after the needs of their own countries
Academy of the Blooming Rose in Caemlyn, focus on history and politics
Primary school branches funded by the throne: Rose Bud Academies
Started by Talana? Fits with her “Blue” mindset and Andor is more than prosperous enough to fund public education
Cairhienin relations/houses - for the Andoran houses granted lands in Cairhien post-TG, (and vice versa) they will retain the lands and wealth granted to them, but once Cairhien became an independent nation once more under House Saighan, they lost political power in their non-native country
Let’s review Andor’s info page and plot…for the queen!
Since that is where the Kin's main digs are at, let's figure them out too!
Kin info from the wiki: After Elayne conquered the throne, a group of Kinswomen, led by Alise, signed a contract with the Crown of Andor which agrees they will establish themselves there permanently as supporter of the Crown, granting healing and traveling to the Andorans. This contract was not considered well by the Amyrlin Seat and the Hall of the Tower, but the upcoming of the Last Battle stopped them to take a measure about it.
Egwene al'Vere, the Amyrlin Seat, unveiled a plan while with the faction of Rebel Aes Sedai: that Aes Sedai who wish to retire could have the Three Oaths removed and be sent to the Kin. This would allow them to live out their greater remaining days in peace while tying The Kin to the White Tower, although it does mean that those who lived with The Kin must accept their rules and customs. So far this plan has not come into action and has been met with strong opposition by some Sitters in the Hall.
Egwene promised also to the Kinswomen with enough strength that, if they want, they can be tested again to become Aes Sedai. Among them Reanne was very glad of the offer. Instead the too week as Alise searched an agreement with the Crown of Andor, to stay in Caemlyn. As part of this agreement, Alise begins to take a less informal leadership role.
Egwene al'Vere, the Amyrlin Seat, unveiled a plan while with the faction of Rebel Aes Sedai: that Aes Sedai who wish to retire could have the Three Oaths removed and be sent to the Kin. This would allow them to live out their greater remaining days in peace while tying The Kin to the White Tower, although it does mean that those who lived with The Kin must accept their rules and customs. So far this plan has not come into action and has been met with strong opposition by some Sitters in the Hall.
Egwene promised also to the Kinswomen with enough strength that, if they want, they can be tested again to become Aes Sedai. Among them Reanne was very glad of the offer. Instead the too week as Alise searched an agreement with the Crown of Andor, to stay in Caemlyn. As part of this agreement, Alise begins to take a less informal leadership role.
Summary:
Andor:
The rebuilding of Caemlyn after the Last Battle:
Eve: let's say it took 10-15?? years, using Ogier stone masons, Asha'man from the BT, and linked Kin circles.
Nat: I would say that it became an issue a few years in because of the Kin
which kind of forced Saerin to confront the problem early on in her career
Eve: I can agree that the Kin would have been worked out during the rebuild, creating their respective stations across the westlands
Nat: the WT doesn't believe in setting precedent and 10-15 years is enough for that
alright, sounds good
and to avoid the same problem of neutrality, this also spurs the BT to move out from Andor?
Eve: Yes, it's during that time they found Caralain (which we'll have in another plot party), but say they lend aid with Caemlyn in concert with the Kin for 5?? years, the rest of the rebuild is completed by Ogier (Asha’man and Kin free thereafter to employ those skills in other countries, etc. due to ties with Elayne, Andor was not charged during the rebuild)
Relationships with neighboring countries (Caralain/Cairhien/Manetheren/Murandy etc):
Caralian and Andor were very close, up until Rahlin's War, which hurt Andor almost as much as TV. It would be some time in healing I think.
Cairhien was handed off to family, so I think they would remain on good terms with one another, especially with noble houses holding lands on both sides
Manetheren had a peaceful and mutually beneficial abdication, so also good there
but then there's Murandy...
So, during Moranna's reign, after the breaking off of Cairhien and Manetheren, she was able to obtain the Hills of Kintara and in doing so, several Murandian nobles swore allegiance to Andor and the Lion Throne (effectively cutting down border raids and ensuring a more stable supply route from the Hills to Aringill)
Tar Valon, what exactly is the nature of their alliance with an Aes Sedai queen?
NatGeoYesterday at 7:10 PM
I think the power among nations is much more even now compared to when Elayne was in charge of 2(3?) nations
but I think Elayne's position as someone who had that much power to potentially challenge WT authority on channeller-related matters would have awakened the AS to further potential problems
I could actually imagine that part of Moranna's problems were behind the scenes manipulations to break apart Andor into 3 states again
just so that one person wouldn't ever have that much power again
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:12 PM
I mean all Aes Sedai are bound by the Oaths (which would obviously still apply), but also they are all meant to answer to the Hall/Amyrlin, which would be... difficult... with nation rulers
NatGeoYesterday at 7:13 PM
I think there would be an implicit understanding that while on the throne they would be representing their nations
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:14 PM
Which is a boon and a curse for the Tower
NatGeoYesterday at 7:14 PM
And especially when they're not dealing with OP matters, this line is more cut and dry
It just becomes tricky when channelling matters are involved
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:15 PM
Hurray they have national rulers intrinsically tied to them, but they also have Aes Sedai who do not necessarily follow the guidance of the Tower
NatGeoYesterday at 7:15 PM
that's why they have Aes Sedai advisors
haha
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:16 PM
Yeah, but they can tell those advisors to take a swim, just as much as any other ruler could
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:17 PM
Yeah I mean, they can't birch a queen for screwing them on a trade deal, so I guess they would have to just deal with it and try to advise or cajole.
NatGeoYesterday at 7:18 PM
well the WT gets their way most of the time
they have experience
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:18 PM
But it would defo humiliate them to get publically screwed by an Aes Sedai
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:18 PM
They would have to treat them as they would any other national power I suppose, just get an extra ear on Tower matters
NatGeoYesterday at 7:18 PM
even if during the days of the LB they royally screwed up
but that was probably mostly Elaida's fault
and the black ajah progrom taking out a lot of experienced sisters
✨Eve✨Yesterday at 7:20 PM
And I don't see any AS rulers being totally blind and deaf to Tower requests, but as we said, by necessity it would come after the needs of their own countries
Academy of the Blooming Rose in Caemlyn, focus on history and politics
Primary school branches funded by the throne: Rose Bud Academies
Started by Talana? Fits with her “Blue” mindset and Andor is more than prosperous enough to fund public education
Cairhienin relations/houses - for the Andoran houses granted lands in Cairhien post-TG, (and vice versa) they will retain the lands and wealth granted to them, but once Cairhien became an independent nation once more under House Saighan, they lost political power in their non-native country
Manetheren abdication - they get Baerlon in the deal, but a favorable trade deal is made to keep wealth flowing into Andor. I like the idea that the Tower pushed Moranna to let Manetheren abdicate too, Grays could have been the mediators working out the deal.
The Kin
Aes Sedai who wish to retire could have the Three Oaths removed and be sent to the Kin:
NatGeo05/05/2020
maybe it came to pass early during Saerin's time? in a related note maybe the progressive movement was strongest during her time (before Rahlin)
maybe it came to pass early during Saerin's time? in a related note maybe the progressive movement was strongest during her time (before Rahlin)
Jair: This was supported by the younger Aes Sedai b/c they wanted older Aes Sedai to retire and give them the reigns, but officially because who wants to give up half their life?
What age do we think most retire to the kin now and how common is it?
NatGeo05/05/2020
most Aes Sedai retire at around 250+ I think
most Aes Sedai retire at around 250+ I think
Jair: I think if it has been going on for 60ish years it would be somewhat common practice by now? And having an Amyrlin do it probably helped.
Sumeko Karistovan was “eldest” at 402, but planned to ask to take the test for Aes Sedai to join the Yellow Ajah after the last battle.
NatGeo05/05/2020
I think the oath rod halves the remaining lifespan they have. I think Sumeko had around 200 years left, so half that would be 100 years so she'd be on the cusp of keeling over about now unless she retires again
I think the oath rod halves the remaining lifespan they have. I think Sumeko had around 200 years left, so half that would be 100 years so she'd be on the cusp of keeling over about now unless she retires again
Shai’tan 😈05/05/2020
What about the runaways that had to return? Do we want them to make it?
What about the runaways that had to return? Do we want them to make it?
Alianora05/05/2020
Kirstian and Zarya, I think
Kirstian and Zarya, I think
NatGeo05/05/2020
I think Kirstian will succeed
I think Kirstian will succeed
NatGeo05/05/2020
but Zarya is quite strong, I think around Romanda's strength
the Tower won't lose that strength lightly
but Zarya is quite strong, I think around Romanda's strength
the Tower won't lose that strength lightly
Jair: Alise (age: 181) is the new leader b/c she makes the plans with Elayne.
“Alise was not to accept Aes Sedai authority over the Kin, in large part because she considered the offer to return mere trumpery in her case. Instead the too week as Alise searched an agreement with the Crown of Andor, to stay in Caemlyn. They will live in their residence for free in exchange for offering Healing and Traveling for the Crown of Andor when it needs it” … and general public for a fee that I believe goes to Andor? This contract was not considered well by the Amyrlin Seat and the Hall of the Tower, but the upcoming of the Last Battle stopped them to take a measure about it. Do you think Cadsuane would be cooler with that than Egwene? Or do you think it maybe cause some slight tension between the nations? Maybe that even explains why Moranna struggled so much? If the White Tower thought Elayne was getting too much power in this deal, they probably would have been trying to make sure Moranna was more under their influence?
“Alise was not to accept Aes Sedai authority over the Kin, in large part because she considered the offer to return mere trumpery in her case. Instead the too week as Alise searched an agreement with the Crown of Andor, to stay in Caemlyn. They will live in their residence for free in exchange for offering Healing and Traveling for the Crown of Andor when it needs it” … and general public for a fee that I believe goes to Andor? This contract was not considered well by the Amyrlin Seat and the Hall of the Tower, but the upcoming of the Last Battle stopped them to take a measure about it. Do you think Cadsuane would be cooler with that than Egwene? Or do you think it maybe cause some slight tension between the nations? Maybe that even explains why Moranna struggled so much? If the White Tower thought Elayne was getting too much power in this deal, they probably would have been trying to make sure Moranna was more under their influence?
NatGeo05/05/2020
yes, so probably the Kin struck bargains with many other nations similar to what they did with Elayne
yes, so probably the Kin struck bargains with many other nations similar to what they did with Elayne
✨Eve✨05/05/2020
Maybe that would be a way to ease the Tower about the situation, they're not going only to Andor, they're going everywhere
Maybe that would be a way to ease the Tower about the situation, they're not going only to Andor, they're going everywhere
NatGeo05/05/2020
I think all nations get some portion of the fee
like maybe the fee goes to whichever nation the gateway was opened from
I think all nations get some portion of the fee
like maybe the fee goes to whichever nation the gateway was opened from
NatGeo05/05/2020
like I don't think the Kin would all be dependent on the nations. Many of them picked up some form of trade or another to survive
I can see many of them continuing that, especially since not all the Kin would be interested in doing gateway duty (though they don't necessarily think it's beneath them like Aes Sedai)
like I don't think the Kin would all be dependent on the nations. Many of them picked up some form of trade or another to survive
I can see many of them continuing that, especially since not all the Kin would be interested in doing gateway duty (though they don't necessarily think it's beneath them like Aes Sedai)
Shai’tan 😈05/05/2020
Maybe the Kin are trying to get some power and want nobles in their ranks
Maybe the Kin are trying to get some power and want nobles in their ranks
Nobles like power and retired Aes Sedai wouldnt' be happy as mere Kin either,
but they gotta keep it on the DL b/c the WT wouldn't be into that.
but they gotta keep it on the DL b/c the WT wouldn't be into that.