Post by The Dark One on Apr 19, 2020 4:21:44 GMT
Lead by The Creator and The Lace of Ages
Pre-party notes: Brandon Sanderson: And, because I have more leeway with such things now, here are some nice quotes for you directly from RJ's notes regarding what happens to Lan and the Borderlands following the Last Battle.
"Malkier might have a lot of uniting to do with the western end of the Borderlands under Lan, who will find himself made king out there . . ."
"The Blight recedes to some extent, I'm not sure how far, it recedes a good bit, though. And they can reclaim some, I'm not sure they can reclaim all of Malkier at this point, but the Blight has visibly retreated so they can go down there and check on the towers on the Blight Border. And they are miles inside the Borderland now, instead of being right on the Border, towers sitting right on the edge of the Blight. They're not on the Blight anymore."
So, talk that the Blight is completely gone isn't true, though it does retreat. (And there are other pockets of land in the north where it is not present.)
Manetheren
Eve: It’s a very naturally fortified country for sure! Rivers and mountains for much of their border!
NatGeo : yeah, but there's a forest dividing the country in two though. I think the Forest of Shadows might have been cleared somewhat? maybe there's a road between the Two Rivers and Jehannah at the least?
Eve: I definitely think there would be a major road through now and I also think that some of the forest may have been cleared for farms due to the increased population. Aaaaaand that there is probably a branch of government in Jehannah (Would have been Alliandre under Perrin)
NatGeo: Also we probably want some form of population increase after the LB, the Seanchan war notwithstanding. Given the nature of the Two Rivers, Alliandre would still retain most of her power, likely
Eve: Agreed, Perrin didn’t want to lead, but life made him
When Manetheren decides to secede, I think they would have given Ghealdan the option to be with them or to have their own independence (because that’s a very TR thing to do) But because I already made the flags and maps we’re not going back, they joined in!
Perrin was steward of the TR and Alliandre swore to him. After Moranna’s less than ideal rule, he did negotiate their independence from Andor and with Ghealdan joining them, they became Manetheren (reborn!). Thank you taveren pattern bending! But he had no desire to become king, so he stepped down and his son became the first king of Manetheren- Tomas
Terrac’s/Menethil:So not to add problems to Manatheren, but would they have a system of villages to appoint their ruler? It feels like that would be a Two rivers custom
Eve: I wrote down that the Village Council/Women’s Circle act as a balancing ruling body. All appointed by their own towns, and all with the power to overrule any King/Queen when necessary.
NatGeo: but how would that work for Ghealdan?
Eve: They would get the same representation
The [insert title here] of Jehannah would be like a Duke/Duchess of the lands south of the forest
Kay: My opinion is that they'd have a fair amount of local autonomy in Ghealdan vs. TR, but they'd ultimately be subordinate to the crown, in the end. The main link would probably be the Duke/Duchess, who is directly subordinate to the monarchy
Terrac’s/Menethil : I could definitely see common people in Ghealdan going along with that, especially since Perrin was the one who basically got rid of the Dragonsworn zealots and the Aiel in one battle. Ghealdan nobels probably look for how their blood relates back to old nobles form that line for claims of legitimacy
Eve: Kay asked the other day how outsiders would view Manetheren and it came to me in the car that it’s probably very like British (Andor) and Scotland (Manetheren) in that the people themselves are not terribly different, but the Scots were thought to be less civilized, all the more so if you went to France (Cairhien) or Spain (Tear) etc.
Kay: Perhaps it's a class thing? Common people, especially fighter types, really buy into the myth of the Two Rivers/Manetheren. Nobility care a bit less/possibly are threatened, and go with the farmers
Eve: I feel like they definitely would have carved out a pretty good name for themselves, but they’re still new to the world stage and the old noble houses would probably lean back on the “just a bunch of shepherds and farmers with pitchforks” stereotype to combat the fact that they do feel threatened by a new power
Kay: That makes sense to me And, internally, I'd agree that Ghealdan's noble class is probably still not much of a player or particularly antagonistic
Eve: With Adora being a Gray, I could see her trying to organize them efficiently after the model they are using in the TRs.
As an aside, I giggled that Adora should be known colloquially as the "She-Wolf" and her Heir as the "Wolf Pup." Said with pride by their subjects and probably in condescension from some of the afore mentioned old families. I think the BT would say it with respect, the WT would probably prefer no one called her that, lol Greens would probably find pride in it, though. Probably some whispers she should have been one of them instead of a Gray lol
Terrac’s/Menethil: Do they have to be from that line? Or could it be from any noble family?
I mean, I could imagine the Aybara name carrying a lot of weight, but is that going to be a legal requirement or are we going to say the council could choose any noble/person?
Eve: Technically could be anyone with the various councils weighing in, but I think they'd favor family lines. Knowing the stubbornness of TR folk, the heir apparent would have had to do something pretty awful for them to want to replace the line. a sleezy or snobish candidate would probably be passed over for a more desirable sibling or cousin, but wouldn't necessarily mean a different family. If somehow the whole group was a bad choice, then they'd start looking for someone else who would be an appropriate fit.
Domestic Affairs
- Strong ties politically and by blood to Andor (and to a lesser degree, Cairhien)
- Trade ties with Andor (primary) and Arad Doman
- Blood ties to the royal line of Saldaea
And something I didn't think to toss in, but sort of came up in discussion, I think that despite the tension between the Towers, I think Manetheren would maintain fairly good ties with Caralain
NatGeo: I think at this point Ghealdan would also have trade ties to the neighbouring Altara? like the Ghealdan portion of Manetheren anyway
Manetheren would like to get their own academy sometime in the near future as part of being taken more seriously plus...who wouldn't want an academy
Pre-party notes: Brandon Sanderson: And, because I have more leeway with such things now, here are some nice quotes for you directly from RJ's notes regarding what happens to Lan and the Borderlands following the Last Battle.
"Malkier might have a lot of uniting to do with the western end of the Borderlands under Lan, who will find himself made king out there . . ."
"The Blight recedes to some extent, I'm not sure how far, it recedes a good bit, though. And they can reclaim some, I'm not sure they can reclaim all of Malkier at this point, but the Blight has visibly retreated so they can go down there and check on the towers on the Blight Border. And they are miles inside the Borderland now, instead of being right on the Border, towers sitting right on the edge of the Blight. They're not on the Blight anymore."
So, talk that the Blight is completely gone isn't true, though it does retreat. (And there are other pockets of land in the north where it is not present.)
Summary:
Manetheren
Eve: It’s a very naturally fortified country for sure! Rivers and mountains for much of their border!
NatGeo : yeah, but there's a forest dividing the country in two though. I think the Forest of Shadows might have been cleared somewhat? maybe there's a road between the Two Rivers and Jehannah at the least?
Eve: I definitely think there would be a major road through now and I also think that some of the forest may have been cleared for farms due to the increased population. Aaaaaand that there is probably a branch of government in Jehannah (Would have been Alliandre under Perrin)
NatGeo: Also we probably want some form of population increase after the LB, the Seanchan war notwithstanding. Given the nature of the Two Rivers, Alliandre would still retain most of her power, likely
Eve: Agreed, Perrin didn’t want to lead, but life made him
When Manetheren decides to secede, I think they would have given Ghealdan the option to be with them or to have their own independence (because that’s a very TR thing to do) But because I already made the flags and maps we’re not going back, they joined in!
Perrin was steward of the TR and Alliandre swore to him. After Moranna’s less than ideal rule, he did negotiate their independence from Andor and with Ghealdan joining them, they became Manetheren (reborn!). Thank you taveren pattern bending! But he had no desire to become king, so he stepped down and his son became the first king of Manetheren- Tomas
Terrac’s/Menethil:So not to add problems to Manatheren, but would they have a system of villages to appoint their ruler? It feels like that would be a Two rivers custom
Eve: I wrote down that the Village Council/Women’s Circle act as a balancing ruling body. All appointed by their own towns, and all with the power to overrule any King/Queen when necessary.
NatGeo: but how would that work for Ghealdan?
Eve: They would get the same representation
The [insert title here] of Jehannah would be like a Duke/Duchess of the lands south of the forest
Kay: My opinion is that they'd have a fair amount of local autonomy in Ghealdan vs. TR, but they'd ultimately be subordinate to the crown, in the end. The main link would probably be the Duke/Duchess, who is directly subordinate to the monarchy
Terrac’s/Menethil : I could definitely see common people in Ghealdan going along with that, especially since Perrin was the one who basically got rid of the Dragonsworn zealots and the Aiel in one battle. Ghealdan nobels probably look for how their blood relates back to old nobles form that line for claims of legitimacy
Eve: Kay asked the other day how outsiders would view Manetheren and it came to me in the car that it’s probably very like British (Andor) and Scotland (Manetheren) in that the people themselves are not terribly different, but the Scots were thought to be less civilized, all the more so if you went to France (Cairhien) or Spain (Tear) etc.
Kay: Perhaps it's a class thing? Common people, especially fighter types, really buy into the myth of the Two Rivers/Manetheren. Nobility care a bit less/possibly are threatened, and go with the farmers
Eve: I feel like they definitely would have carved out a pretty good name for themselves, but they’re still new to the world stage and the old noble houses would probably lean back on the “just a bunch of shepherds and farmers with pitchforks” stereotype to combat the fact that they do feel threatened by a new power
Kay: That makes sense to me And, internally, I'd agree that Ghealdan's noble class is probably still not much of a player or particularly antagonistic
Eve: With Adora being a Gray, I could see her trying to organize them efficiently after the model they are using in the TRs.
As an aside, I giggled that Adora should be known colloquially as the "She-Wolf" and her Heir as the "Wolf Pup." Said with pride by their subjects and probably in condescension from some of the afore mentioned old families. I think the BT would say it with respect, the WT would probably prefer no one called her that, lol Greens would probably find pride in it, though. Probably some whispers she should have been one of them instead of a Gray lol
Terrac’s/Menethil: Do they have to be from that line? Or could it be from any noble family?
I mean, I could imagine the Aybara name carrying a lot of weight, but is that going to be a legal requirement or are we going to say the council could choose any noble/person?
Eve: Technically could be anyone with the various councils weighing in, but I think they'd favor family lines. Knowing the stubbornness of TR folk, the heir apparent would have had to do something pretty awful for them to want to replace the line. a sleezy or snobish candidate would probably be passed over for a more desirable sibling or cousin, but wouldn't necessarily mean a different family. If somehow the whole group was a bad choice, then they'd start looking for someone else who would be an appropriate fit.
Domestic Affairs
- Strong ties politically and by blood to Andor (and to a lesser degree, Cairhien)
- Trade ties with Andor (primary) and Arad Doman
- Blood ties to the royal line of Saldaea
And something I didn't think to toss in, but sort of came up in discussion, I think that despite the tension between the Towers, I think Manetheren would maintain fairly good ties with Caralain
NatGeo: I think at this point Ghealdan would also have trade ties to the neighbouring Altara? like the Ghealdan portion of Manetheren anyway
Eve: Altara is another night, but with Ebou Dar being Tai'Seanchan territory, most of Altara doesn't (currently) have much of a structured government.
Manetheren would like to get their own academy sometime in the near future as part of being taken more seriously plus...who wouldn't want an academy
Malkier
Eve:
- General History
- Maric (son of Nynaeve and Lan), a full Asha'man, returns to Malkier to Captain the armies along side his sister, el'Elnore (continues to this day)
- Jain disappeared from the White Tower in 34 FA, unknown if he still lives.
- Maric (son of Nynaeve and Lan), a full Asha'man, returns to Malkier to Captain the armies along side his sister, el'Elnore (continues to this day)
- Jain disappeared from the White Tower in 34 FA, unknown if he still lives.
- Geography
- Predominantly mountainous country
- Major cities:
- The Seven Towers (Yes, the Seven Towers city should be the capital again, just because it's badass.)
- Salmarna
- Tarwin's Gap
- The Blight Border
- Predominantly mountainous country
- Major cities:
- The Seven Towers (Yes, the Seven Towers city should be the capital again, just because it's badass.)
- Salmarna
- Tarwin's Gap
- The Blight Border
some of the country is still in the Blight, nobody is living up there, but it's technically where they're old borders would have been
Kay: cleansed Shayol Ghul means access to the fortress...and it being "reclaimed by the Blight" is a huge sign that things are going badly.
What do we think the population is like? Obviously some Malkieri who survived would return, but that's probably not enough for an entire nation. Other Borderlanders, maybe?
What do we think the population is like? Obviously some Malkieri who survived would return, but that's probably not enough for an entire nation. Other Borderlanders, maybe?
Terrac’s/Menethil: It's probably a bit lower than most nations
Kay: I think, given the resurgent Blight, they'd need to have a pretty good handle on the Border. If nothing else, the military is fully staffed.
Terrac’s/Menethil : Very true, but is it centralized or in the hands of more local defense forces? Personally I'm in favor of a more decentralized command but the structure very much laid out. Like, individual lords/commanders can act if they need to, but no one questions a direct order from their superior.
Kay: We're sticking with a straight monarchy for them, right?
Eve: Something I said first off that may have gotten buried with the Blight thing:
- Maric (son of Nynaeve and Lan), a full Asha'man, returns to Malkier to Captain the armies along side his sister, el'Elnore (continues to this day) So we have a Aes Sedai Queen sister and an Asha’man War General brother after the Seanchan War. Elnore has stepped down, but I envisioned Maric staying on as CG. As a whole, the Borderlands remained pretty neutral on the whole Tower War thing.
- Maric (son of Nynaeve and Lan), a full Asha'man, returns to Malkier to Captain the armies along side his sister, el'Elnore (continues to this day) So we have a Aes Sedai Queen sister and an Asha’man War General brother after the Seanchan War. Elnore has stepped down, but I envisioned Maric staying on as CG. As a whole, the Borderlands remained pretty neutral on the whole Tower War thing.
Kay: I feel like any 'council' are likely very unofficial, given the strong personalities and long tenures of the rulers. (I'm assuming the personality thing, but I think it's a safe bet). Probably close friends and advisors
Terrac’s/Menethil : Shienar has heavy Cavalry, Kandor had the two swords, Saldea had light cavalry, does Malkier have any specific type of troops they are famous for? Given the mountains I would expect they are great at hit and run or guerilla tactics and counter guerilla tactics
Kay: Honestly, Malkier being where it is, I imagine it's a place less focused on specific fighting styles and just high quality individual troops.
Like, they have some of everything, but what they do have they're experts in
Terrac’s/Menethil: I mean, I'm sure Saldea has heavy cavalry alongside its light and infantry too, I just thought it might be a good thing to touch on. since those martial qualities are also heavy influences on their culture
Tseia: Saldaea didn't originally have heavy cavalry. Their horses are small and light (much like the people) and best used for scouting. I always likened them to Mongolian nomads, in that respect.
Buuut I do have a family of horse breeders, and Tai has a warhorse, so we could make it canon that since The Last Battle, Saldaea has worked on branching out.
Kay: Honestly, Malkier being where it is, I imagine it's a place less focused on specific fighting styles and just high quality individual troops.
Like, they have some of everything, but what they do have they're experts in
Terrac’s/Menethil: I mean, I'm sure Saldea has heavy cavalry alongside its light and infantry too, I just thought it might be a good thing to touch on. since those martial qualities are also heavy influences on their culture
Tseia: Saldaea didn't originally have heavy cavalry. Their horses are small and light (much like the people) and best used for scouting. I always likened them to Mongolian nomads, in that respect.
Buuut I do have a family of horse breeders, and Tai has a warhorse, so we could make it canon that since The Last Battle, Saldaea has worked on branching out.
Jair: Are we keeping that weird Malkier teaching sex custom? I didn't love that in New Spring.
Kay: The more I think about it, Malkier should have some frontier Wild West vibes. Swordslingers instead of gunslingers, but disparate individuals and groups of skilled people making their way in a rugged land. It’s a relatively new nation, and while loyalty to Lan’s family is probably bone deep the only other uniting motive is fighting the blight.