Post by The Dark One on Apr 19, 2020 4:27:24 GMT
Lead by The Lace of Ages and The Creator
Pre-party Notes:
The future of the Atha'an Miere
[Vol.9] Nesta din Reas Two Moons (Mistress of the Ships) and her Blademaster Baroc were executed by the Seanchan.
[Vol.9] By Sea Folk customs, Renaile din Calon Blue Star--the Windfinder to the Mistress of the Ships--will have to start her career all over again from the bottom.
[Vol.9] Wavemistress Harine din Togara Two Winds will become the Mistress of the Ships, according to a viewing by Min. This will probably come about because the previous Mistress was executed by Seanchan. However, Harine is power-hungry, arrogant, and treats her older sister--Windfinder Shalon din Togara Morning Tide--like crap. Her attitude suggests that she may be a Darkfriend.
[Vol.9] Cadsuane wants to use Shalon to spy on Harine, and blackmails her with the threat of revealing her lesbian relationship with Ailil ("pillow friends"), which would end Shalon's respectable marriage and reduce her rank to something horrible. Shalon told Harine that she was supposed to be spying on her, and now Harine wants Shalon to use the spying as an excuse to learn how to weave Gateways. Shalon is caught between a rock and a hard place: Cadsuane and Harine. To make matters worse for her, Harine is suddenly acting sweet and nice, which she hasn't done since childhood. It sounds like she will be manipulating Shalon . . . but what does she want?
[Vol.9] Mat secretly freed damane Nestelle, a Windfinder, who swore she would rally her people against the Seanchan and that she will remember Mat Cauthon.
[Vol.9] Nesta din Reas Two Moons (Mistress of the Ships) and her Blademaster Baroc were executed by the Seanchan.
[Vol.9] By Sea Folk customs, Renaile din Calon Blue Star--the Windfinder to the Mistress of the Ships--will have to start her career all over again from the bottom.
[Vol.9] Wavemistress Harine din Togara Two Winds will become the Mistress of the Ships, according to a viewing by Min. This will probably come about because the previous Mistress was executed by Seanchan. However, Harine is power-hungry, arrogant, and treats her older sister--Windfinder Shalon din Togara Morning Tide--like crap. Her attitude suggests that she may be a Darkfriend.
[Vol.9] Cadsuane wants to use Shalon to spy on Harine, and blackmails her with the threat of revealing her lesbian relationship with Ailil ("pillow friends"), which would end Shalon's respectable marriage and reduce her rank to something horrible. Shalon told Harine that she was supposed to be spying on her, and now Harine wants Shalon to use the spying as an excuse to learn how to weave Gateways. Shalon is caught between a rock and a hard place: Cadsuane and Harine. To make matters worse for her, Harine is suddenly acting sweet and nice, which she hasn't done since childhood. It sounds like she will be manipulating Shalon . . . but what does she want?
[Vol.9] Mat secretly freed damane Nestelle, a Windfinder, who swore she would rally her people against the Seanchan and that she will remember Mat Cauthon.
Extra AM resources:
from the books: www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/sea_folk.html
hierarchy of the Atha'an Miere: www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=126&theo=2390
13th depository: 13depository.blogspot.com/2002/01/topical-index-sea-folk-characters-main.html#topics
Summary:
Technology
Kay:
One of the first areas this balance was brought up was the idea of technology, particularly black powder weaponry which, thanks to Mat, seemed poised to revolutionize war in the Westlands. The idea of everyone carrying around a gun doesn’t really mesh well with the sword and sorcery vibe of Wheel of Time, though, so early on we introduced the concept of a black powder ban in the Dragon Compact, ostensibly to head off Aviendha’s vision of the future. We’ve tinkered with that since; the Children of the Light are perhaps the best group to delve into black powder anyway, and their lore acknowledges that and makes it a key part of their identity. So, this is the sort of balancing act we need to do!
CarlSailorYesterday:
Has anyone read The Saga of Recluce? It has an interesting workaround for gunpowder in a magical world. Since the weapons work by way of an explosive charge, a stray touch of magic is enough to make them misfire or explode.
thus they serve a niche role, but are generally not practical, and don't see a lot of use.
Perhaps one of the towers discovered a convenient weave for that?
#TheresAWeaveForThat
Has anyone read The Saga of Recluce? It has an interesting workaround for gunpowder in a magical world. Since the weapons work by way of an explosive charge, a stray touch of magic is enough to make them misfire or explode.
thus they serve a niche role, but are generally not practical, and don't see a lot of use.
Perhaps one of the towers discovered a convenient weave for that?
#TheresAWeaveForThat
Shai’tan :
Ohhh that is smart...I think that would be a good idea for if/when black powder comes back via Children if we take that route.
Ohhh that is smart...I think that would be a good idea for if/when black powder comes back via Children if we take that route.
NatGeo:
You probably just need to touch the thing with fire and then whoop it's gone
You probably just need to touch the thing with fire and then whoop it's gone
Kay:
It's definitely a neat idea, and sort of peeks at my first prompt.
It's definitely a neat idea, and sort of peeks at my first prompt.
First is, obviously, black powder. Very illegal in Dragon Compact territory and one of the major areas that might bring the Aiel down on you, still secretly studied by the Children. Is there anything to add to this topic? Bonus question: what happened to the Illuminators? (Or, well, Aludra)
Maybe she ended up in Mayene?
Shai’tan:
That is delicious. I love the idea of Aludra getting mad her idea was sidelined and going to the children with it...I am just so delighted
Avi should have killed her
That is delicious. I love the idea of Aludra getting mad her idea was sidelined and going to the children with it...I am just so delighted
Avi should have killed her
Eve:
Yup, canonize it
Yup, canonize it
CarlSailor:
Also, it is in a position to dominate trade with Shara and get extremely rich. A hefty cash cow for the children. They will no doubt be anxious to protect their investment.
Also, it is in a position to dominate trade with Shara and get extremely rich. A hefty cash cow for the children. They will no doubt be anxious to protect their investment.
Kay:
Second, which plays a role in Toria’s backstory: steam power. We had the beginnings of this tech in the series, too, but Toria’s backstory has it as largely supplanted by the Traveling network, though she was working on advancing the tech to a more useful stage. Based on that, no matter what it’s still pretty rudimentary, but did we want to have that advance as our stories progress?
Second, which plays a role in Toria’s backstory: steam power. We had the beginnings of this tech in the series, too, but Toria’s backstory has it as largely supplanted by the Traveling network, though she was working on advancing the tech to a more useful stage. Based on that, no matter what it’s still pretty rudimentary, but did we want to have that advance as our stories progress?
CarlSailorYesterday:
Does this mean we will be seeing an industrial revolution in the not too distant future?
Kay:
The beginnings of one, maybe? We already have class issues starting to shape up in a number of countries. I'm not sure what role they'll play in out stories, but it's hard to ignore them as a backdrop
Does this mean we will be seeing an industrial revolution in the not too distant future?
Kay:
The beginnings of one, maybe? We already have class issues starting to shape up in a number of countries. I'm not sure what role they'll play in out stories, but it's hard to ignore them as a backdrop
Shai’tan :
I definitely think it makes sense to work towards it, but it will probably take a long time to get there in the writing
I definitely think it makes sense to work towards it, but it will probably take a long time to get there in the writing
Kay:
Third, odds and ends. This has come up for me time and again, and I’d like to get a sense of where people are at with this. This covers all sorts of miscellany: what sort of writing instruments are available? Clocks? Watches? Tools? What sort of things make sense for a character to have access to, and how easily?
Third, odds and ends. This has come up for me time and again, and I’d like to get a sense of where people are at with this. This covers all sorts of miscellany: what sort of writing instruments are available? Clocks? Watches? Tools? What sort of things make sense for a character to have access to, and how easily?
Alianora:
I think they have clocks
I think they have clocks
Eve:
I believe we also said something about fountain pens being invented and being all the rage. Quill and ink was standard in the books I believe
I believe we also said something about fountain pens being invented and being all the rage. Quill and ink was standard in the books I believe
Shai’tan
I had a thought about typewriters....there were printing presses in the third age so manual type writers could maybe be in progress of being invented?
I had a thought about typewriters....there were printing presses in the third age so manual type writers could maybe be in progress of being invented?
CarlSailor
They would be terribly expensive though. Lots of moving parts, and few replacement components. I think they would be novelties at best
They would be terribly expensive though. Lots of moving parts, and few replacement components. I think they would be novelties at best
Kay:
Agreed. Definitely a rich person's game.
Printing presses were a Cairhien school thing, I think?
Agreed. Definitely a rich person's game.
Printing presses were a Cairhien school thing, I think?
CarlSailor:
Presses are easy to maintain. Just moveable type, and a few large wooden/metal pieces which could easily be manufactured custom by the local carpenter or blacksmith.
Presses are easy to maintain. Just moveable type, and a few large wooden/metal pieces which could easily be manufactured custom by the local carpenter or blacksmith.
Shai’tan:
I have a weird thing...I want some hand rolled cigarettes b/c I like pipes and all, but....smoking is so...cool ya know?
I have a weird thing...I want some hand rolled cigarettes b/c I like pipes and all, but....smoking is so...cool ya know?
CarlSailor:
Cigars would necessarily come first.
Cigars would necessarily come first.
Cigarettes were designed so that women could smoke.
Kay:
My last point is very, uh, fictional tech, and should be of special interest to our Darkfriends, and that’s the process of making Shadowspawn. The Seanchan Empire has a dedicated squad of people pulling Aginors, and we’ve already addressed their big successes with our earlier contest. Do we have anything more to add?
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:32 PM
We didn't talk about how they were able to get the tech to make them when Aginor couldn't do it in the third age...but also...yeah Jules we need you
I had a fun fact about the seachan exotics though
They were aliens.
We didn't talk about how they were able to get the tech to make them when Aginor couldn't do it in the third age...but also...yeah Jules we need you
I had a fun fact about the seachan exotics though
They were aliens.
Kay:
Weren't they portal stone abductees?
Weren't they portal stone abductees?
Shai’tan:
yup! They are native of other worlds and were brought to our world via portal stones.
BWB
Chapter 18
Exotic Animals of Seanchan
When Luthair Paendrag’s armies began their conquest of Seanchan, they confronted not only the terrifying Aes Sedai who freely used the Power as a military weapon, but strange beasts out of nightmare that flew at them from above or attacked them with claws and teeth, often tearing men from their saddles to devour them on the spot. From horned frog-creatures the size of large bears to horse-sized catlike animals, these creatures seemed as if they could only have come from the evil of Shadow. It was thus, between the Aes Sedai and the creatures believed to be some new kind of Shadowspawn, that the defenders of this new continent came to be known as the Armies of the Night.
These strange new creatures were not Shadowspawn at all, but the descendants of beasts brought back from parallel worlds, via Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the Breaking, probably in an attempt to find aid against the real Shadowspawn. While the creatures’ effectiveness was not recorded, it was during this same period that all remaining Shadowspawn on the continent were eradicated. The creatures remained, their care and training surviving through all the political upheavals until Luthair’s arrival. The knowledge that allowed their procurement by way of the Portal Stones, however, was lost.
By the time Luthair invaded, such creatures as the grolm, torm, lopar, corlm, raken, and to’raken were used throughout the armies of the area. After his successful conquest, Luthair adopted them into his own armies, like his newly leashed damane. His descendants continue the tradition. The animals are currently maintained as an essential part of the military, with their handlers and trainers assured an honored place in the hierarchy.
yup! They are native of other worlds and were brought to our world via portal stones.
BWB
Chapter 18
Exotic Animals of Seanchan
When Luthair Paendrag’s armies began their conquest of Seanchan, they confronted not only the terrifying Aes Sedai who freely used the Power as a military weapon, but strange beasts out of nightmare that flew at them from above or attacked them with claws and teeth, often tearing men from their saddles to devour them on the spot. From horned frog-creatures the size of large bears to horse-sized catlike animals, these creatures seemed as if they could only have come from the evil of Shadow. It was thus, between the Aes Sedai and the creatures believed to be some new kind of Shadowspawn, that the defenders of this new continent came to be known as the Armies of the Night.
These strange new creatures were not Shadowspawn at all, but the descendants of beasts brought back from parallel worlds, via Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the Breaking, probably in an attempt to find aid against the real Shadowspawn. While the creatures’ effectiveness was not recorded, it was during this same period that all remaining Shadowspawn on the continent were eradicated. The creatures remained, their care and training surviving through all the political upheavals until Luthair’s arrival. The knowledge that allowed their procurement by way of the Portal Stones, however, was lost.
By the time Luthair invaded, such creatures as the grolm, torm, lopar, corlm, raken, and to’raken were used throughout the armies of the area. After his successful conquest, Luthair adopted them into his own armies, like his newly leashed damane. His descendants continue the tradition. The animals are currently maintained as an essential part of the military, with their handlers and trainers assured an honored place in the hierarchy.
Kay:
They'd need someone pretty devious to manage it, for sure, but if we don't have any specific suggestions beyond what we've done already, feel free to throw out any tech points!
They'd need someone pretty devious to manage it, for sure, but if we don't have any specific suggestions beyond what we've done already, feel free to throw out any tech points!
Shai’tan 😈Yesterday at 7:36 PM
I don't know tech. When you are an all powerful being, you don't usually have to worry about that kind of stuff.
oh wait I had something from the AoL
The One Power was also used in agricultural farming. Using the One Power helped the farmland yield the most it could. Using “seed singing”, Ogier, Nym (the last of which is known as the Green Man) and Da’shain Aiel worked together, focusing the One Power to ensure perfect growth for every field they “sang.” The Da’shain Aiel helped enhance the singing. Crops that had been sung were immune to blight and impervious to insects. Most of the crops that had been sung reached their best possible growth and highest nutritional content.
Sounds like something the Water Legion would be all about
I don't know tech. When you are an all powerful being, you don't usually have to worry about that kind of stuff.
oh wait I had something from the AoL
The One Power was also used in agricultural farming. Using the One Power helped the farmland yield the most it could. Using “seed singing”, Ogier, Nym (the last of which is known as the Green Man) and Da’shain Aiel worked together, focusing the One Power to ensure perfect growth for every field they “sang.” The Da’shain Aiel helped enhance the singing. Crops that had been sung were immune to blight and impervious to insects. Most of the crops that had been sung reached their best possible growth and highest nutritional content.
Sounds like something the Water Legion would be all about
ohhhhh and...we have the bad constructs, but what about the good?
Are ppl bringing back the greenmen? or trying?
CarlSailor:
sounds like something that the Towers would be working on.
sounds like something that the Towers would be working on.
Shai’tan:
Are the Aiel trying to make more Chora trees?
Are the Aiel trying to make more Chora trees?
Kay:
Yeah...that might be an interesting area of cooperation between Towers and between the Towers and Aiel
Yeah...that might be an interesting area of cooperation between Towers and between the Towers and Aiel
Tseia:
Tbh, I just assumed our new Shadowspawn creatures were produced the old fashioned way. Stage by stage breeding. I suppose they could have developed tech to speed that up, but he next stage beyond controlled breeding is basically meddling with genetics, which is a bit too advanced for the FA.
Tbh, I just assumed our new Shadowspawn creatures were produced the old fashioned way. Stage by stage breeding. I suppose they could have developed tech to speed that up, but he next stage beyond controlled breeding is basically meddling with genetics, which is a bit too advanced for the FA.
Shai’tan :
I found this: www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/96gda5/what_do_we_know_of_how_the_shadowspawn_came_about/
I found this: www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/96gda5/what_do_we_know_of_how_the_shadowspawn_came_about/
And this quote from an interview:
Q: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.
Q: So would a Nym have the same problem?
RJ: Yes.
Q: How about Ogier?
RJ: No. Ogier are not artificial constructs.
[9:41 PM]
But as aliens, I think the Seanchan beasts could
Q: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.
Q: So would a Nym have the same problem?
RJ: Yes.
Q: How about Ogier?
RJ: No. Ogier are not artificial constructs.
[9:41 PM]
But as aliens, I think the Seanchan beasts could
Tseia:
Oh, maybe someone rediscovered a Portal Stone and its use?
I feel that the Senachan themselves, after they lost the war for the Westlands, would prioritize research and exploration that could hone their military edge
Shai’tan :
I looooooove the rediscovering portal stone idea
I mean Moggy is there already so why not
I mean Moggy is there already so why not
Seafolk
CarlSailor:
Well, we mentioned steam engines before, so Steamships!
powered by weaves of fire of course, not coal.
Better for the environment that way.
Well, we mentioned steam engines before, so Steamships!
powered by weaves of fire of course, not coal.
Better for the environment that way.
Kay:
Steamships with fire weaves are...huh. That's neat. And may be one of the benefits of the Windfinders getting more training.
Steamships with fire weaves are...huh. That's neat. And may be one of the benefits of the Windfinders getting more training.
Eve:
I like the idea of Sea Folk harnessing steam as the tech progresses that far
So starting out, I have a note that we probably need to make an adjustment to something on our timeline:
Our timeline: "21 FA – Emperor Garelwyn of the Seanchan gathers a preliminary force and sends a probing attack to the Westlands, landing on Tai’Seanchan coastlines. They are quickly repelled within two months but cause significant damage to Tarabon and Toman Head. Not long after, the Sea Folk on Tremalking go silent." but the Amayar were completely wiped out (mass suicide) after the female Choden Kal melted after cleansing saidin and they believed it was the end of times. What Sea Folk would be there to go silent? Given the extreme tragedy on Tremalking, would Sea Folk even go near there???
I like the idea of Sea Folk harnessing steam as the tech progresses that far
So starting out, I have a note that we probably need to make an adjustment to something on our timeline:
Our timeline: "21 FA – Emperor Garelwyn of the Seanchan gathers a preliminary force and sends a probing attack to the Westlands, landing on Tai’Seanchan coastlines. They are quickly repelled within two months but cause significant damage to Tarabon and Toman Head. Not long after, the Sea Folk on Tremalking go silent." but the Amayar were completely wiped out (mass suicide) after the female Choden Kal melted after cleansing saidin and they believed it was the end of times. What Sea Folk would be there to go silent? Given the extreme tragedy on Tremalking, would Sea Folk even go near there???
Angela:
Unless maybe they turned it into a memorial of some sort?
Unless maybe they turned it into a memorial of some sort?
CarlSailor:
Secluded male channeler villages on Tremalking.
Memorial works too
Secluded male channeler villages on Tremalking.
Memorial works too
Eve
Also, if we have the male channelers taking up residence on and around Tremalking, that would have made for a very bloody conquest for our Seanchan Emperor and his ideas of invasion
Also, if we have the male channelers taking up residence on and around Tremalking, that would have made for a very bloody conquest for our Seanchan Emperor and his ideas of invasion
Shai’tan
would the men be wave masters or have their own new function in the culture?
would the men be wave masters or have their own new function in the culture?
Angela:
I think they'd have a different function
I think they'd have a different function
NatGeo:
I don't think as many of them would have the Cloud Dancing talent
I don't think as many of them would have the Cloud Dancing talent
CarlSailor:
master shipwrights perhaps?
master shipwrights perhaps?
Eve:
Oh, oh, oh, oh! You GUYS! Remember how we were just talking about how the Windfinders would need to buff up their Fire abilities to be able to run steam ships??? eyebrow waggling intensifies
Oh, oh, oh, oh! You GUYS! Remember how we were just talking about how the Windfinders would need to buff up their Fire abilities to be able to run steam ships??? eyebrow waggling intensifies
Steam masters!
I'm in love, are you in love? Because I'm in love.
Aaaaaanyway... I've lost my train of thought.... oh yes! Tremalking. A port requires people who don't spend 99% of their lives aboard a ship, so who would they have pulled in to help keep up supplies, etc. for the new steam ships?
Angela:
Maybe...with the advent of steam, they don't need as many people on each ship, so some have willingly become shorebound?Hard,
But they'd do it if they saw it as a duty, I think
To sustain the lifestyle, they'll have to adapt
Maybe...with the advent of steam, they don't need as many people on each ship, so some have willingly become shorebound?Hard,
But they'd do it if they saw it as a duty, I think
To sustain the lifestyle, they'll have to adapt
CarlSailor:
Ships need dockworkers, and boatswains.
Harbors need harbormasters and weather forecasters and more.
Ships need dockworkers, and boatswains.
Harbors need harbormasters and weather forecasters and more.
Kay:
Rotations maybe?
Rotations maybe?
Eve:
So here's the training bit, from the Bargain made with Egwene:
"It is decided at the meeting that Accepted will go and train with the Wise Ones for six months and then they would then train with the Sea Folk for a further six months before returning back at the White Tower.
They would then make a choice a year later on where they would wish to finish their training. Sea Folk and Wise One apprentices would also go through this training program but to the White Tower and the other channeling faction. It is agreed that for every two Accepted who leave, two Wise One apprentices and two Sea Folk apprentices will be exchanged."
"It is decided at the meeting that Accepted will go and train with the Wise Ones for six months and then they would then train with the Sea Folk for a further six months before returning back at the White Tower.
They would then make a choice a year later on where they would wish to finish their training. Sea Folk and Wise One apprentices would also go through this training program but to the White Tower and the other channeling faction. It is agreed that for every two Accepted who leave, two Wise One apprentices and two Sea Folk apprentices will be exchanged."
We don't have it canonized now that the female channelers will hold up that bargain, but I love it and think we should incorporate it rather than finding a loophole to get out of it
So, thought: the BT, the Dragonblooded, and the new Steammasters agree to something similar.
So, thought: the BT, the Dragonblooded, and the new Steammasters agree to something similar.
Tseia:
I volunteer Farran to liasion with the male AM, if we're going with the shipwright angle. He will, eventually, be the BT's Master of the Forge, amongst other things...
I volunteer Farran to liasion with the male AM, if we're going with the shipwright angle. He will, eventually, be the BT's Master of the Forge, amongst other things...
Eve:
The odds of getting some Dragonblooded trainees to stay aboard a ship for 6 months is... not good.
So! Enter Tremalking. They can travel there so as not to die of seeing so much water on the way, and while they most certainly will do portions of training at sea, it wouldn't be a solid six months and the AM get the benefit of able bodies (and ones who can channel at that) to work the land/hold the port
Alianora:
Will there be enough of them to keep up a whole port though?
Will there be enough of them to keep up a whole port though?
Kay:
Ehhhh, maybe not? But they might be enough to fill in any gaps that the Sea Folk can't
Ehhhh, maybe not? But they might be enough to fill in any gaps that the Sea Folk can't
Shai’tan :
Yeah and like Angela said, they would do it for duty...and I liked the rotation idea
Yeah and like Angela said, they would do it for duty...and I liked the rotation idea
Alianora:
I think they would do some sort of rotation, I think that's what they did when the Amayar were alive and someone had to live on land.
I think they would do some sort of rotation, I think that's what they did when the Amayar were alive and someone had to live on land.
Eve:
I love our plans for Tremalking, the male channelers, and the training rotations
Angela:
"The Jendai Prophecy states that the Atha’an Miere are fated to wander the seas until the return of the Coramoor."
"The Jendai Prophecy states that the Atha’an Miere are fated to wander the seas until the return of the Coramoor."
Maybe now they feel they're supposed to build ports?
Eve:
Oooh, nice, a prophetic reason to send some to shore lol
Oooh, nice, a prophetic reason to send some to shore lol
Kay
That feels like the sort of thing they'd be hard pressed to adopt generally, I think
Shai’tan
except for the progressive youth....oh I need to stop with the call backs, but I can't
Kay:
True, that might be a good trigger for the split
That feels like the sort of thing they'd be hard pressed to adopt generally, I think
Shai’tan
except for the progressive youth....oh I need to stop with the call backs, but I can't
Kay:
True, that might be a good trigger for the split
Angela:
Have you heard of the Korean term Hann?
Basically it's a cultural concept. A cultural sadness, longing. I'm thinking if we have AM who have decided to become shore bound as a duty to their culture, they'd be highly respected, but they would have a cultural longing...and perhaps they have almost two separate cultures now?
The AM who are on the ocean and the shore bound who are honored for their sacrifice and perhaps choose to never set foot on a ship and only work adjacent to the sea because they don't want to know what their ancestors gave up?
The AM who are on the ocean and the shore bound who are honored for their sacrifice and perhaps choose to never set foot on a ship and only work adjacent to the sea because they don't want to know what their ancestors gave up?
Eve:
So, the islands already have ports of sorts, and presumably rotations of people that stay shorebound to make them function
So Tremalking was really the only one we need to "repopulate" as it were
And we've found a work around for that
(Yay us!)
But, dem Sea Folk, they love their Bargains
The one made with the Coramoor (Rand) was:
The Atha'an Miere have promised such ships as the Coramoor needs, to sail when and where he needs them, for whatever purposes he requires.
The Coramoor will not change any laws of the Atha'an Miere.
The Coramoor must give the Atha'an Miere land, a square one mile on each side, at every city on navigable water that he controls now or comes to control. Which cities are these? This is a huuuuuge impact on them and the Atha'an Miere. (See note below)
The Coramoor agrees to keep an ambassador chosen by the Atha'an Miere with him at all times. Harine din Togara has named herself. She will be accompanied by her Windfinder, her Swordmaster, and a retinue.
The Coramoor agrees to go promptly to a summons from the Mistress of the Ships, but not more than twice in any three consecutive years.
-The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.
So, the islands already have ports of sorts, and presumably rotations of people that stay shorebound to make them function
So Tremalking was really the only one we need to "repopulate" as it were
And we've found a work around for that
(Yay us!)
But, dem Sea Folk, they love their Bargains
The one made with the Coramoor (Rand) was:
The Atha'an Miere have promised such ships as the Coramoor needs, to sail when and where he needs them, for whatever purposes he requires.
The Coramoor will not change any laws of the Atha'an Miere.
The Coramoor must give the Atha'an Miere land, a square one mile on each side, at every city on navigable water that he controls now or comes to control. Which cities are these? This is a huuuuuge impact on them and the Atha'an Miere. (See note below)
The Coramoor agrees to keep an ambassador chosen by the Atha'an Miere with him at all times. Harine din Togara has named herself. She will be accompanied by her Windfinder, her Swordmaster, and a retinue.
The Coramoor agrees to go promptly to a summons from the Mistress of the Ships, but not more than twice in any three consecutive years.
-The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.
Oh, and as an addendum, Elayne made a Bargain as well, promising the something much the same:
"Zaida din Parede Blackwing, ambassadress of the Atha'an Miere agreed to lend Elayne assistance in her quest for the Lion Throne in exchange of commercial privileges and land as with the Coramoor. *So a mile square in ports in both Andor, Cairhien and now Manetheren (Aringill, Maeron, Cairhien, Whitebridge, and even Taren Ferry if the White River is passable for ships?)"
Obviously all but the land bit expired with the Coramoor's death, but that one is tricky. Do the nations honor it? Do they tell them to step off and thusly piss off a valuable trade asset?
"Zaida din Parede Blackwing, ambassadress of the Atha'an Miere agreed to lend Elayne assistance in her quest for the Lion Throne in exchange of commercial privileges and land as with the Coramoor. *So a mile square in ports in both Andor, Cairhien and now Manetheren (Aringill, Maeron, Cairhien, Whitebridge, and even Taren Ferry if the White River is passable for ships?)"
Obviously all but the land bit expired with the Coramoor's death, but that one is tricky. Do the nations honor it? Do they tell them to step off and thusly piss off a valuable trade asset?
Angela:
I think some would honor it and others would piss off the AM
I think some would honor it and others would piss off the AM
Eve:
For the lands held by Elayne, she's not getting out of that. She was alive more than long enough for those ports to be built
For the lands held by Elayne, she's not getting out of that. She was alive more than long enough for those ports to be built
Based on what we've set up for Arad Doman, they would honor it I think
Angela:
What's Tear look like now, politically? Old Tairen nobility totally would have seized the land back.
What's Tear look like now, politically? Old Tairen nobility totally would have seized the land back.
Eve:
Darlin made a lot of reforms in Tear, but did he have that much sway???
Kay:
Tear is a class crisis in action, but likely their worse impulses would be curbed by the new monarchy
Tear is a class crisis in action, but likely their worse impulses would be curbed by the new monarchy
Shai’tan
But the BT does all their water stuff now so that makes a lot of sense
But the BT does all their water stuff now so that makes a lot of sense
Eve:
Tear is building it's own navy too, maybe that was in retaliation to having done pissed off the Sea Folk?
Tear is building it's own navy too, maybe that was in retaliation to having done pissed off the Sea Folk?
Kay:
Well, the Sea Folk joining the Dragon Compact would have to come with tacit agreement of whatever borders are in place at that point, so eventually they'd need to be on board
Well, the Sea Folk joining the Dragon Compact would have to come with tacit agreement of whatever borders are in place at that point, so eventually they'd need to be on board
Eve:
I don't think we set a date for when they do sign on to the Peace, but it was after the Seanchan invasion. Their ships would have to pass through the Fingers of the Dragon and up the Erinin to get to Andor/Cairhien/Tar Valon, so they maybe they had to renegotiate with Darlin/Tear and that's the best they got away with
I don't think we set a date for when they do sign on to the Peace, but it was after the Seanchan invasion. Their ships would have to pass through the Fingers of the Dragon and up the Erinin to get to Andor/Cairhien/Tar Valon, so they maybe they had to renegotiate with Darlin/Tear and that's the best they got away with
He did marry a Cairhienin
Yeah, she didn't get a ton of time to shine in the books, but she did get her man seated on a previously non-existent throne
Yeah, she didn't get a ton of time to shine in the books, but she did get her man seated on a previously non-existent throne
Kay:
Yeah, so if people reneged after the last battle there would be time to come to an understanding
Yeah, so if people reneged after the last battle there would be time to come to an understanding
Bad blood would probably still be in the cards. Sea Folk don't take cheats lightly
Shai’tan:
Unless they got something else for it
Unless they got something else for it
post party note: Maybe that was when they made the deal with the BT to do the exchange program?? To help soothe things.
Eve:
So we're going with all Elayne's held ports and Bandar Eban. Tear says "no." What about Illian?
As we all type the exact same thing at the same time
So we're going with all Elayne's held ports and Bandar Eban. Tear says "no." What about Illian?
As we all type the exact same thing at the same time
Ok, Illian honors it and thusly makes the route up to now Manetheren thereby possible, even after the cessation
And I'm going to say they keep it too, because, A. it's been there a good while by the time they become a separate nation and B. they're too honest to not
I think we just need to know the "when" and basically refresh that it was brokered by the Domani, earning them much needed trade rights (maybe makes the Sea Folk square mile in Bandar Eban duty-free or something??). Tai'Seanchan release any Atha'an Miere damane and remove any forces from their islands (are there any left out there? I don't remember). The Sea Folk sign the Dragon Compact and begin trading with Tai'Seanchan, which they also needed.
And I'm going to say they keep it too, because, A. it's been there a good while by the time they become a separate nation and B. they're too honest to not
I think we just need to know the "when" and basically refresh that it was brokered by the Domani, earning them much needed trade rights (maybe makes the Sea Folk square mile in Bandar Eban duty-free or something??). Tai'Seanchan release any Atha'an Miere damane and remove any forces from their islands (are there any left out there? I don't remember). The Sea Folk sign the Dragon Compact and begin trading with Tai'Seanchan, which they also needed.
So, somewhere in the 30s FA? Sound good?
-Jendai Prophecy said that the Coramoor (Rand) would bring them dominion of all seas in the world, how's that panning out?
-Prized "Sea Folk" Porcelain was actually made by the Amayar, who are now completely extinct. It was already worth it's weight in gold in the previous age, now probably double/triple that amount?
And that I thought their cool cultural hierarchy should remain
-Prized "Sea Folk" Porcelain was actually made by the Amayar, who are now completely extinct. It was already worth it's weight in gold in the previous age, now probably double/triple that amount?
And that I thought their cool cultural hierarchy should remain
Kay:
First point...probably okay ish, but getting rockier? Their main competition will be Tear/BT naval forces, but that takes time to put in place and they'll have a lot of room to grow in the interim.
First point...probably okay ish, but getting rockier? Their main competition will be Tear/BT naval forces, but that takes time to put in place and they'll have a lot of room to grow in the interim.
Second...yeah, agreed. Have they figured out how to make more?
And third totally agreed.
And third totally agreed.
Shai’tan :
They need to defeat the Seanchan for all the seas
oh maybe that is why they wanted to join the peace after the war
b/c they knew they couldn't defeat them unless they joined with the others in the dragon peace
but yeah...they don't need to do that today or anything
They need to defeat the Seanchan for all the seas
oh maybe that is why they wanted to join the peace after the war
b/c they knew they couldn't defeat them unless they joined with the others in the dragon peace
but yeah...they don't need to do that today or anything
second point: oh maybe that is part of the hann it helps them get in touch with the island and make it
but also cheap knock offs but those can come from other nations
Eve:
Something about the description makes me think it's some sort of sea glass?
They have to painstakingly whittle down
Something about the description makes me think it's some sort of sea glass?
They have to painstakingly whittle down
